From patti at nyc.rr.com Mon Oct 8 12:18:34 2007 From: patti at nyc.rr.com (Patti Ciavarelli) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:18:34 -0400 Subject: [Stones] Spike is a New Stones Patient Message-ID: <001101c809c6$e03cba70$0501a8c0@patti> Hi all- I just found your list. Spike is a new stones patient. I hospitalized him last week when he failed to bounce back after what I thought was a UTI. They rehydrated him and gave pain meds. He is not home on Antibiotics, prednisone and Ringers (40cc per day) He passed 7 stones between Friday and Saturday. The vet took blood on Sunday and was quite pleased with his BUN and Creatinine, but now he is refusing food (1 cc of critical care still in his mouth an hour later) and I am worried. I just blended a handful of cranberries and a TBSP of water and gave him a cc of that. I will order the Shilintong today, but anyone have any ideas to make him eat? Thanks and glad I found you- Patti -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071008/c25e9d80/attachment.html From BunsnPigs at aol.com Mon Oct 8 14:09:01 2007 From: BunsnPigs at aol.com (BunsnPigs at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:09:01 EDT Subject: [Stones] Spike is a New Stones Patient Message-ID: Patti, is he on any pain meds now? He sounds like he is in pain and you don't have any mention of continued pain meds. Did the vet do radiographs to see what his kidneys and bladder look like? This is essential. What is the prednisone for? Finally, my vet told me to give my guinea pig 1 drop (its about 1/3 of a 1/10th of a cc) of Lasix daily to make her drink. It works. Its amazing. She is peeing and drinking like mad. Poor Spike. Judi L. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071008/82bb452c/attachment.html From patti at nyc.rr.com Mon Oct 8 14:13:30 2007 From: patti at nyc.rr.com (Patti Ciavarelli) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:13:30 -0400 Subject: [Stones] Spike is a New Stones Patient In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301c809d6$ee7893b0$0501a8c0@patti> Hi Judi :-) The prednisone is supposed to be for inflammation/pain and as a side effect it makes you thirsty and hungry. The x-rays showed several large stones, which he passed all or most by Saturday. The rest were crystals in I his ureter and kidneys, they said this might be more painful, but this is ridiculous. He is just a lump. I feel so bad. Patti _____ From: BunsnPigs at aol.com [mailto:BunsnPigs at aol.com] Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 2:09 PM To: patti at nyc.rr.com; stones at gpigs-database.org Subject: Re: [Stones] Spike is a New Stones Patient Patti, is he on any pain meds now? He sounds like he is in pain and you don't have any mention of continued pain meds. Did the vet do radiographs to see what his kidneys and bladder look like? This is essential. What is the prednisone for? Finally, my vet told me to give my guinea pig 1 drop (its about 1/3 of a 1/10th of a cc) of Lasix daily to make her drink. It works. Its amazing. She is peeing and drinking like mad. Poor Spike. Judi L. _____ See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071008/585881d5/attachment.html From patti at nyc.rr.com Mon Oct 8 14:43:34 2007 From: patti at nyc.rr.com (Patti Ciavarelli) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:43:34 -0400 Subject: [Stones] Spike is a New Stones Patient In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001901c809db$23e64340$0501a8c0@patti> I am in NY and my exotics specialist is Heidi Hoefer http://www.heidihoefer.com/pages/whah/whah.htm I will give them a call today to update them. Thanks- Patti _____ From: BunsnPigs at aol.com [mailto:BunsnPigs at aol.com] Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 2:23 PM To: patti at nyc.rr.com Subject: Re: [Stones] Spike is a New Stones Patient Who is your vet, by the way? Where are you located? I think you should call him up and tell him that he needs some pain meds. I really do. I hope it will be ok given that he is on the pred. YOu may not be able to give him any today. :-((( Judi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071008/96217e59/attachment-0001.html From texg at cavyinfo.com Mon Oct 8 15:36:29 2007 From: texg at cavyinfo.com (texg at cavyinfo.com) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:36:29 -0400 Subject: [Stones] Stones Digest, Vol 38, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071008153629.fg49gowe80ksos0c@www.cavyinfo.com> Hi Patti, Prednisone is a steriod, and some guinea pigs don't react well to it (I had a piggie that was allergic to it, and another person I know also has a piggie that did not react well). A more common - and safer - analgesic which most vets use is metacam. It's possible that Spike may have a digestive slowdown (it can be induced by many things, including stress). Usually continued hand/syringe feeding (Critical care) helps, and in some cases vets use a motility drug such as cisapride (Propulcid) or metacloprimide (Reglan). If he has crystals in his kidneys/ureters, it can be quite painful. As Judi said, an x-ray is critical to determine the extent of the formations. Are crystals forming in both kidneys, or just one? Getting extra water/fluids into Spike can help as well. Not only will it help flush the crystals/sludge from his system, but it will also help remove any build-up of toxins that may have happened during this time. In some cases subcutaneous fluids can help, but be certain to use the smallest/finest needle possible, and warm the Ringers to near body temperature. Tex From ABSiev at aol.com Mon Oct 8 18:13:01 2007 From: ABSiev at aol.com (ABSiev at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 18:13:01 EDT Subject: [Stones] Spike is a New Stones Patient Message-ID: In a message dated 10/8/07 2:09:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BunsnPigs at aol.com writes: my vet told me to give my guinea pig 1 drop (its about 1/3 of a 1/10th of a cc) of Lasix daily to make her drink. It works. Its amazing. She is peeing and drinking like mad Judi, I'm very intrigued by this. Is this a temporary measure, or something you're going to continue to do? Does Lasix come in different potencies (in liquid form) or is there one standard formulation? My Skippy doesn't seem to form stones anymore*, but his bladder is full of "sand"... * he was forming them like a house afire till I switched his water to bottled - I wonder whether fluoride somehow contributes to calcium crystals forming into stones - ? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071008/b8f3ffaa/attachment.html From BunsnPigs at aol.com Mon Oct 8 18:43:29 2007 From: BunsnPigs at aol.com (BunsnPigs at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 18:43:29 EDT Subject: [Stones] Spike is a New Stones Patient Message-ID: I am continuing to give her the Lasix because she is 6 1/2 years old, her mother had the biggest bladder stone my vet ever saw (so its probably in her genes), and the dose is minute compared to the 2 - 5mg/kg twice a day prescription dose for Lasix. Given that the oral Lasix comes in a concentration of 8mg/ml, a 2mg/kg dose of Lasix would be .25ml. Twice a day is .5ml. One drop is about 1/3rd of a 1/10th of an ml, or .03ml. That's only 1/8th the regular dose, and once a day makes it 1/16th the regular dose. Just that one drop makes my girl drink 8 ounces a day. I had to cut the dose to one drop every OTHER day because she was drinking so much. I've only been doing this for 2 1/2 weeks, so in all fairness, I don't know what the long term issue is with her kidneys, but... she was DYING, so I figured I would take that chance on her behalf. We also think that the stones in the radiographs were not solid, so the increased water intake helped them dissolve. I noticed some rather thick sludge coming out of her for a few days afterwards. We have well water. We moved to this house 3 years ago. We have a filter on our system, but all of my piggies were getting sludgy output - I never had that before with the city water. I switched them all to purchased filtered water and I don't see it nearly as much, but I do still use it to wash my veggies. Judi In a message dated 10/8/2007 6:14:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ABSiev at aol.com writes: In a message dated 10/8/07 2:09:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BunsnPigs at aol.com writes: my vet told me to give my guinea pig 1 drop (its about 1/3 of a 1/10th of a cc) of Lasix daily to make her drink. It works. Its amazing. She is peeing and drinking like mad Judi, I'm very intrigued by this. Is this a temporary measure, or something you're going to continue to do? Does Lasix come in different potencies (in liquid form) or is there one standard formulation? My Skippy doesn't seem to form stones anymore*, but his bladder is full of "sand"... * he was forming them like a house afire till I switched his water to bottled - I wonder whether fluoride somehow contributes to calcium crystals forming into stones - ? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071008/acf04bef/attachment.html From monioak at yahoo.ca Tue Oct 9 14:18:17 2007 From: monioak at yahoo.ca (Monique Charlebois) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Stones] Elvis' blocked urethra Message-ID: <91575.1451.qm@web56614.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Elvis is an almost 5 yr old intact boar who was diagnosed 4 days ago with a fairly large stone in his urethra, plus some small ones, and another fair sized one in the bladder. He had been squeaking at odd times - that was his only symptom. Surgery was this morning. The stone in the urethra could not be flushed out or removed; it was in such a position in the pelvis that it could not be reached by either end. The other one got flushed into the urethra. Some of the urethra tore in the process. I was unwilling to let him go quite yet in the middle of surgery. I wanted to give the urethera a chance to heal ...? And my kids would have been very upset. This is one tough but beloved pig. The vet performed a marsupialization - essentially creating a new opening in the abdomen from the bladder to bypass the urethra all together. It has been done in cats and dogs and ferrets but not documented in cavies. At a minimum he'll be on antibiotics for the rest of his life, whatever that may be - maybe long enough for us to come to terms with the inevitable, and with a scrupulously clean pen. I'm thinking those puppy trainer pads. I'd appreciate feedback from anyone who had this experience. Monique --------------------------------- Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071009/932a46de/attachment.html From rzm.2 at juno.com Tue Oct 9 18:38:33 2007 From: rzm.2 at juno.com (Jaime) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:38:33 GMT Subject: [Stones] HEALTH- steroids Message-ID: <20071009.153833.2120.0@webmail05.dca.untd.com> Patti- When my piggie Molly was sick & in the hospital the vet gave her a steroid as a last ditch effort to try & get her to eat & drink. All it did was make her feel worse, extended the length of her illness & prolonged the inevitable. Sorry to be such a downer, but I know for sure the steroids didn't work on her. Hope all turns out ok for both of you. ~Jaime~ ~Mimi & the mini "Mimi's" + ~Molly, Radar & Albert always in our hearts~ http://piggiepages001.blogspot.com/ From texg at cavyinfo.com Wed Oct 10 13:00:08 2007 From: texg at cavyinfo.com (texg at cavyinfo.com) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:00:08 -0400 Subject: [Stones] Elvis' stones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071010130008.jklq27owascok8o0@www.cavyinfo.com> Monique, First - I'm not a vet, so please keep in mind that my reply is based on my personal experiences and knowledge from talking to vets and other piggie owners. The process you describe - where the urethra is bypassed - may not work: a guinea pig is not a dog or cat. Piggies' urine is normally alkaline, and if Elvis' stones were caused by calcium crystals (almost all are), there is a good likelihood that the passage would become blocked or infected after a short period of time. Additionally, the fact that piggies are so low to the ground could make keeping the area clean difficult. It depends on the amount of trauma that was caused to the urethra (and the location) as to whether it can heal. There is a possibility that scar tissue could form, making his problem worse. So, that said, what can you do to give him his best chances? As your vet said, the marsupialization procedure has not been documented in guinea pigs. If you go this route and it works, it could give new hope to other people that have piggies with a similar problem. If it does not work, he will be in a lot of discomfort. If you decide to try to let him heal, you should make sure you provide him with painkillers (usually metacam) for the pain, and be prepared to syringe feed him until he feels like eating. If his urethra is still blocked, this is serious. It can cause the urine to back up in the bladder and damage it, as well as cause renal failure. Some people have used a Chinese herb called shilintong that stimulates the bladder to work more efficiently (expelling urine and crystals), and in some cases it has helped piggies pass stones. Unfortunately, female piggies have better anatomy for passing stones, and the shilintong has worked better for them. Actigal (a human gallstone medicine) has been used in some cases to dissolve stones. The problem with actigal is that it does not work in every case (actually, it shouldn't work at all, as the composition of the bladderstones is different that gallstones). Also, in the cases where it has worked it has taken some time (days or weeks), and if he is blocked he does not have that luxury. You do not face an easy choice. I hope things work out. Please e-mail me or the list if you have questions, etc. Tex From monioak at yahoo.ca Wed Oct 10 16:34:08 2007 From: monioak at yahoo.ca (Monique Charlebois) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Stones] Elvis' stones In-Reply-To: <20071010130008.jklq27owascok8o0@www.cavyinfo.com> Message-ID: <781964.5809.qm@web56614.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Tex, Thanks for the advice. As of last night and this morning's reports from the clinic, Elvis is eagerly reaching for the syringe of Critical Care, and feeds himself hay and any CC leftovers in a dish. Normal poops are being produced and the tummy is draining and wet (where the new opening is). This is very encouraging - that's my laid-back boy. I guess I'll be able to pick him up when he is feeding and drinking reasonably well on his own although I can continue to nurse him through the weekend. He is of course receiving the best pain killer drugs - not just metacam but a new one which they have found works well in bunnies, does not knock them out. I know he will be on baytril for the rest of his life, but the pain meds - I guess that remains to be seen. We certainly do not want him to suffer, we just wanted a bit more time if that was possible. As he is a solo pig, I can easily set him up on fleece blankets and keep the hay behind a grid for ease of reach, rather than a loose pile. I will have to speak to the vet about any additional swabbing or cleaning that might be required. Today is her day off and she was only popping in for a check. I expect to speak to her tomorrow and will report back. At this point I don't know how large this opening is, and the distance to the bladder - I know it's a skin fold - and if risks of blockage will continue and if shilington could be considered. I suspect that the urethra is not expected to become functional ever again, with two stones stuck there in an unreachable spot. Monique texg at cavyinfo.com wrote: Monique, First - I'm not a vet, so please keep in mind that my reply is based on my personal experiences and knowledge from talking to vets and other piggie owners. The process you describe - where the urethra is bypassed - may not work: a guinea pig is not a dog or cat. Piggies' urine is normally alkaline, and if Elvis' stones were caused by calcium crystals (almost all are), there is a good likelihood that the passage would become blocked or infected after a short period of time. Additionally, the fact that piggies are so low to the ground could make keeping the area clean difficult. It depends on the amount of trauma that was caused to the urethra (and the location) as to whether it can heal. There is a possibility that scar tissue could form, making his problem worse. So, that said, what can you do to give him his best chances? As your vet said, the marsupialization procedure has not been documented in guinea pigs. If you go this route and it works, it could give new hope to other people that have piggies with a similar problem. If it does not work, he will be in a lot of discomfort. If you decide to try to let him heal, you should make sure you provide him with painkillers (usually metacam) for the pain, and be prepared to syringe feed him until he feels like eating. If his urethra is still blocked, this is serious. It can cause the urine to back up in the bladder and damage it, as well as cause renal failure. Some people have used a Chinese herb called shilintong that stimulates the bladder to work more efficiently (expelling urine and crystals), and in some cases it has helped piggies pass stones. Unfortunately, female piggies have better anatomy for passing stones, and the shilintong has worked better for them. Actigal (a human gallstone medicine) has been used in some cases to dissolve stones. The problem with actigal is that it does not work in every case (actually, it shouldn't work at all, as the composition of the bladderstones is different that gallstones). Also, in the cases where it has worked it has taken some time (days or weeks), and if he is blocked he does not have that luxury. You do not face an easy choice. I hope things work out. Please e-mail me or the list if you have questions, etc. Tex --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071010/68a8f984/attachment.html From mshill0207 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 10 21:54:58 2007 From: mshill0207 at yahoo.com (Jamie Hill) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 18:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Stones] Spike is a New Stones Patient In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <392166.2143.qm@web56514.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Patti, I'm sorry to hear about Spike! I also have a stone pig and her name is Maya. We went through at least 4 months of serious, constant problems and sometimes we really didn't think she would make it. But, Maya is such a fighter. We have been successful in managing her stone/sludge issue for the past 3 months by keeping her on a regimen of unsweetened cranberry juice. She was on shillintong for quite some time as it was a tough road to get her to the state she is currently at. In my humble opinion, shillintong is a wonder drug. However, I've stopped giving it for the meantime since the cranberry is working. However, Maya still has her bad days and I'm assuming it has something to do with her bladder issues. She occasionally does not feel like eating. When this happens, she gets a little gassy because she slows down on hay consumption. My tried and true remedy is giving her some watered down infant gas x. Then, after a few hours, I will give her some probiotic. Then after another couple hours, I will give her a bit more gas x. By the next day, she is back to her happy little pig self. This usually happens 1 or 2 x per month. Everytime, I freak out because I'm worried she is going to leave me, but she snaps right out of it. Anyways, hope this bit of insight helps you out. Feel free to email me if you have any other questions on what worked for my sweet little Maya. Best of luck with your little Spike! Jamie & Maya, Cookie, Conan, Gracie, Annie, Harry, and Lloyd --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071010/c3436086/attachment.html From patti at nyc.rr.com Mon Oct 8 14:26:41 2007 From: patti at nyc.rr.com (Patti Ciavarelli) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:26:41 -0400 Subject: [Stones] Spike is a New Stones Patient In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001101c809d8$c5e7fc40$0501a8c0@patti> What's funny is that he seemed to pass the bladder stones easily, no crying or blood, the blood started the next day and while the vet noted it, it seemed in keeping with what she expected. I really have a loot of respect for those that rescue so many ill piggies. This is so much work and each step I fear that I am hurting rather than helping. Patti _____ From: BunsnPigs at aol.com [mailto:BunsnPigs at aol.com] Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 2:18 PM To: patti at nyc.rr.com Subject: Re: [Stones] Spike is a New Stones Patient I wonder what other people will say about the prednisone vs. metoclopramide for pain. Let me find out from my vet, too. Crystals in the kidneys and ureters can be quite painful, too. I think he is in pain. How on earth did he pass those stones? That must have hurt. Maybe he's got sores in his urethra from that. Judi In a message dated 10/8/2007 2:14:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patti at nyc.rr.com writes: Hi Judi :-) The prednisone is supposed to be for inflammation/pain and as a side effect it makes you thirsty and hungry. The x-rays showed several large stones, which he passed all or most by Saturday. The rest were crystals in I his ureter and kidneys, they said this might be more painful, but this is ridiculous. He is just a lump. I feel so bad. Patti _____ See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071008/44cd34ad/attachment-0001.html From the_gourd_lady at hotmail.com Thu Oct 11 16:59:47 2007 From: the_gourd_lady at hotmail.com (Katie Garlic) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:59:47 -0400 Subject: [Stones] rescue piggies References: Message-ID: Pattie, I have a small rescue where I usually take in a few piggies from owners who no longer want their piggies. At one time I had 18! As of now I have 6. I've had two pigs who developed stones. One named Spike (just like yours) was finally able to pass his stone. I fed him lots of cucumbers, celery and romaine every day. (I'd also sneak in a leaf of iceberg lettuce only cause he wasn't much of a water drinker.) I changed him from well water to city water. Later another pig, Dole, had a huge stone. He had to have surgery and did well for almost a whole year before passing on to the Rainbow Bridge. I estimate both pigs were about 5 1/2 to 6 years old when they passed away. Like you I always worried about hurting them, but most of my rescues would have never been able to live long lives without being surrender to me. So please know, I understand your fears, but remember you are doing what you can to make them better. This is an excellent list to get in formation. Katie PS: My "biggest" fear is hand feeding them when they need to be hand fed! > From: "Patti Ciavarelli" > Subject: Re: [Stones] Spike is a New Stones Patient > I really have a loot of respect for those that rescue so many ill piggies. > This is so much work and each step I fear that I am hurting rather than > helping. > Patti From pciavare at pratt.edu Thu Oct 11 19:55:51 2007 From: pciavare at pratt.edu (Patricia L. Ciavarelli) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:55:51 -0400 Subject: [Stones] Thank you all for your support - Spike has gone to the Bridge In-Reply-To: <392166.2143.qm@web56514.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <392166.2143.qm@web56514.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002b01c80c62$413d64d0$0501a8c0@patti> Hi all- Thank you all so much for your love and support in such a short time. As it turns out, in spite of a lifetime of good food and love, Spike was not meant to survive this bout with stones. We said goodbye to him yesterday as he ran off into the timothy hay meadow to play with his friends at the bridge. I will miss him so, but know that he is in a better place with no pain and his voracious appetite has returned. Take care, and love your pigs everyday (which I know you do). They are special little creatures that have a very strong ability to heal the human heart and soul. Patti -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071011/a50e76df/attachment.html From monioak at yahoo.ca Thu Oct 11 21:10:29 2007 From: monioak at yahoo.ca (Monique Charlebois) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Stones] Elvis and his marsupialization Message-ID: <624260.76858.qm@web56603.mail.re3.yahoo.com> He's home! He seems very relieved and is eating a lot. I've put a tiny bit of pomegranate-blueberry juice in his water - those wonderful healing antioxidants. I have to clean the incision twice a day with just gauze and water, pluck out any bits of hay, then apply an antibiotic cream on it for a week - so he has a cone on. Recheck and stitches out in a week. I will post pictures on my Guinealynx thread this weekend, and keep a journal. Monique --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071011/c694dd40/attachment.html From KSkosich at msn.com Fri Oct 12 22:27:51 2007 From: KSkosich at msn.com (J D) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:27:51 -0600 Subject: [Stones] misc: sympathy to Patti Message-ID: Patti, I was so sorry to read about your dear Spike. Over the last dozen years, I have had a few guinea pigs that suffered from stones and I know what a heartbreaking journey it is. I hope it helps in a small way to know that those of us who subscribe to this list are thinking of you in sympathy and understanding. --Kathy in CO (with Millie the bloodhound, Shaggy cat, guinea pigs Pookah-Darryl and Ginger as well as many, many more beloved critters at the Rainbow Bridge) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071012/ef678348/attachment.html From gegoderod at yahoo.de Thu Oct 18 19:20:34 2007 From: gegoderod at yahoo.de (Elizabeth Williams) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Stones] HEALTH: Diet for the stone prone? Message-ID: <124570.19769.qm@web33509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My girl Buckley is prone to calcium-based stones. It would really help if she could be on a diet to help prevent stones, but the only thing left that I can take her off of is the commercially formulated guinea pig pellets. Currently she gets unlimited Timothy hay, 1.5 handfuls of pellets, and distilled water (my vet's idea since our water is so hard). If I take her off the pellets I'm afraid she won't get all the nutrients she needs. What have you done to replace the pellets in you piggy's diet? __________________________________ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den sch?nsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/clever From admin at guineapigs.org Fri Oct 19 00:08:50 2007 From: admin at guineapigs.org (admin at guineapigs.org) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 00:08:50 -0400 Subject: [Stones] HEALTH: Diet for the stone prone? In-Reply-To: <124570.19769.qm@web33509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <124570.19769.qm@web33509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20071019000850.icnhg2rut4w40gcg@www.guineapigs.org> Hi Elizabeth, Are the pellets you use timothy or alfalfa-based? What about fresh fruits and veggies? I had a sludge piggie that the vet recommended we cut down drastically on the pellets. We would give her about 1 teaspoon of timothy pellets a day, all the timothy hay she wanted, and fruits and veggies. We selected veggies based on calcium content and calcium/phosphorus ratio (there's a nutrition chart available for download that shows calcium, phosphorus, oxalic acid, vitamin C and some other useful info). We were able to find a combination that kept sludge to a minimum. Luckily, she did not form stones. Other piggies we've had with bladder stones did not fare as well, and surgery was required. In all cases the stones returned, as we weren't able to find the "magic combination" of diet, water, and supplements (herbs or medications) to keep them from re-forming. It's generally agreed that getting a piggie to drink more water, as well as regular exercise, may help keep stones in remission. Some people use a small vibrator held on the piggie's lower abdomen to try and help calcium sediment stay suspended in the urine and not settle in the bladder where it can eventually form a stone. Other piggies develop stones in the kidneys; sometimes they will migrate down the ureter to the bladder, where they collect more crystals and get larger. On the negative side, no one management method works for every piggie. On a more positive side, some people on this list have found something that works to keep the stones away. Also, a female piggie has a better chance of being able to pass stones, as their "plumbing" is a great deal less complicated. I hope Buckley feels beter soon; hopefully something will work for her. Tex From gegoderod at yahoo.de Fri Oct 19 18:31:52 2007 From: gegoderod at yahoo.de (Elizabeth Williams) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Stones] HEALTH: Diet for the stone prone? Message-ID: <712725.49915.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I use Kay-tee Timothy based pellets, though Alfalfa is listed in the ingredients. I haven't been able to find pellets with no Alfalfa. Buckley gets a handful of pellets every morning, part of an apple once or twice a week, and huge piles of lettuce mixes (no iceberg, no spinach) about 3 times a week. Her mother Lorraine also had calcium crystals in her urine (and we believe she had small stones as well). Buckley currently has a stone about the size of the head of a pin (the ones with the white plastic heads) in her bladder. (X-rays showed it for sure) Does this sound like it would be too large to pass? Our vet recommended surgery, though she said it was not urgent. I am hesitant to put Buckley under anesthesia and I feel uncomfortable putting her through this surgery without a better plan for preventing the stones. (she's only 3 and a half, so I'd probably go for the surgery anyway, but I don't like thinking that there's a good chance she'll have to go through it again) How do you get your pigs to exercise? Mine just want to lay around no matter where you put them. Thanks for the advice. -Elizabeth Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los geht's: http://de.yahoo.com/set From rzm.2 at juno.com Sat Oct 20 13:26:37 2007 From: rzm.2 at juno.com (Jaime) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:26:37 GMT Subject: [Stones] HEALTH- alternatives to surgery Message-ID: <20071020.102637.1495.3@webmail21.dca.untd.com> Elizabeth- If it's not an emergency, you could try giving your piggie shilintong to help dissolve or, at least, shrink the stones. I can e-mail you some info on it then. Have to find it first. I'll get back to you. Also certain types of lettuce still have calcium which can make stones & bladder sludge worse. If your piggie is going to have surgery, I would keep on the pellets. You want them to have some weight on them when they have the surgery in case they don't want to eat after the surgery. Then they won't waste away as fast. Just my opinions. I've been through all this with my first piggie Albert. I'll get back to you with the info. ~Jaime~ ~Mimi & the (now adoptable!)mini "Mimi's" + ~Molly, Radar & Albert always in our hearts~ http://piggiepages001.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071020/50a1813c/attachment.html From calliope at geeksnet.com Sat Oct 20 19:07:01 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:07:01 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: piggies losing weight because of bladderstones Message-ID: <471A8A15.4050809@geeksnet.com> Hi. I am new here. My guinea pig, Sunshine, a four-year-old male, was diagnosed with bladderstones on Thursday. We have surgery scheduled for Monday. Unfortunately he didn't show any symptoms until about a week ago, when he began crying when he had to "go." I thought at first that he had gas and was treating him for that. Sunshine used to weigh 3 pounds, 6 ounces or so. A big guy, I know. He is a rescue piggie and was already 3 pounds, 1 ounce when I met him. He is now back to 3 pounds, 1 ounce. I am concerned about his weight loss. Is this normal for a piggie with stones? I was hoping to get him to gain an ounce or two before surgery, but I don't know if I will be able to do that. Thanks for any thoughts/advice. Cindy and Sunshine From ABSiev at aol.com Sat Oct 20 21:42:43 2007 From: ABSiev at aol.com (ABSiev at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:42:43 EDT Subject: [Stones] CARE: piggies losing weight because of bladderstones Message-ID: Hi Cindy - he won't eat well if he's in pain, and bladder stones hurt! If you could get your hands on some Metacam, it would definitely help (they will give you pain meds for him after the surgery, but he could use it now). I will tell you that my Skippy has never gotten back to his top weight since he began having stones, but he does eat well and is ok. He is also 4. Sometimes pigs slim down a bit as they age anyway... Amy ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071020/fa3dd19d/attachment.html From calliope at geeksnet.com Sun Oct 21 12:14:58 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:14:58 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: piggies losing weight because of bladderstones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <471B7B02.1090709@geeksnet.com> Hi Amy, Yes, I bet you are right that some of the weight loss could be due to Sunshine's being 4. I will just keep doing my best to encourage him to eat well. He seems in good appetite today. Thanks for letting me know about the Metacam. Cindy > Hi Cindy - he won't eat well if he's in pain, and bladder stones > hurt! If you could get your hands on some Metacam, it would > definitely help (they will give you pain meds for him after the > surgery, but he could use it now). > > I will tell you that my Skippy has never gotten back to his top weight > since he began having stones, but he does eat well and is ok. He is > also 4. Sometimes pigs slim down a bit as they age anyway... > > Amy > From calliope at geeksnet.com Mon Oct 22 19:06:51 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:06:51 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: question about cranberry juice Message-ID: <471D2D0B.2050007@geeksnet.com> I am wondering about using cranberry juice as part of a sludge/bladderstone diet. I can find the kind with no sugar and just pure cranberries, but it is very bitter. Can I mix it with some apple juice or something else and syringe it to the piggies? In the past I've tried adding a bit of it to their water bottles, but then they wouldn't drink anything. Thanks for any help/advice. Cindy From ABSiev at aol.com Mon Oct 22 19:10:43 2007 From: ABSiev at aol.com (ABSiev at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:10:43 EDT Subject: [Stones] CARE: question about cranberry juice Message-ID: Hi Cindy! You caught me online. How did it go today?!?! I'm pretty sure the consensus is that cranberry juice is not beneficial in preventing bladder stones. I think it's more for UTI's. Perhaps others could weigh in on this. If you're going to use it, I would dilute it with just water. Too much sugar in apple juice. Piggies often like bitter things and things we wouldn't care for at all. Skippy LOVES Shilintong (nasty brown stuff) but doesn't particularly care for Polycitra (sweet). Amy ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071022/2d24c385/attachment.html From calliope at geeksnet.com Mon Oct 22 19:50:31 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:50:31 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: question about cranberry juice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <471D3747.10209@geeksnet.com> Hi Amy! Thanks for the info about cranberry juice. It's good to know that it is more for UTIs. I also wasn't sure about the sugar in apple juice. I am happy to say that Sunshine came through his surgery very well. He was just waking up at 2, and we were able to pick him up around 5:30. My vet thought of keeping him overnight but told me he knew that Sunshine would get the best care at home. Sunshine was most happy to see his house. He just drank a little water a couple of minutes ago and has also been eating a lot of hay. Cindy From texg at cavyinfo.com Mon Oct 22 20:21:35 2007 From: texg at cavyinfo.com (texg at cavyinfo.com) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:21:35 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: question about cranberry juice In-Reply-To: <471D3747.10209@geeksnet.com> References: <471D3747.10209@geeksnet.com> Message-ID: <20071022202135.muwm4gl6xwws00ks@www.cavyinfo.com> Hi Cindy - Glad to hear all went well with Sunshine! Now it's a matter of trying to find the right combination of diet and supplements to keep the stones away... RE: Cranberry juice. It's helpful with UTIs and sludge - conditionally. I don't think it will help prevent stones, though. The "original" Hamlet was a sludge piggie, and if he didn't have 10cc of cranberry juice every day, he would block up. I've heard of cranberry juice making sludge worse in other piggies. Amy is right about piggies liking bitter stuff! I once got a product named "YUK!" to try and keep Sweetie Pig from biting at her leg. As with everything I give the pigs, I had to test it on me; it tasted a lot like bile (anyone that's had a bad stomach flu knows *that* taste!). Sweetie pig licked it off where I applied it and looked for more! Snuffles' abscess returned; he'll probably have surgery tomorrow. Poor little guy looks like a pelican - it puffed up almost overnight. I check his jaw *every* night; Friday it was fine, we were away Saturday, and when we got home Sunday afternoon, it was there. Baby Hamlet will have his bladderstone surgery soon; I want to have them do another x-ray and see if the diet modification we tried has made them bigger. Tex Quoting Cindy : > Hi Amy! > > Thanks for the info about cranberry juice. It's good to know that it is > more for UTIs. I also wasn't sure about the sugar in apple juice. > > I am happy to say that Sunshine came through his surgery very well. He > was just waking up at 2, and we were able to pick him up around 5:30. > My vet thought of keeping him overnight but told me he knew that > Sunshine would get the best care at home. Sunshine was most happy to > see his house. He just drank a little water a couple of minutes ago and > has also been eating a lot of hay. > > Cindy > > > > _______________________________________________ > Stones mailing list > Stones at gpigs-database.org > http://gpigs-database.org/mailman/listinfo/stones_gpigs-database.org > From calliope at geeksnet.com Tue Oct 23 11:27:01 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:27:01 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: diet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <471E12C5.9020202@geeksnet.com> As I'm working to change Sunshine, Tumbleweed, and Friday's diet, I am wondering what foods are big no-nos. I do know to stop feeding parsley. Am going to give my last batch to my neighbor, who loves it. They've never had spinach, so that isn't a problem. At the moment they're getting escarole, corn shucks and silk, a bit of apple, a couple of small carrot pieces, cucumber, cilantro, and of course hay and pellets each day. (Every other day they have a small bit of tomato.) They used to get kale every three days. Is that a total no-no? They love cabbage, but I stopped feeding it because I thought it was making Sunshine gassy. Of course the "gas" turned out to be a bladderstone. Is cabbage OK? Sorry for all the questions. I appreciate any and all help! TIA. Cindy From craftergirl at aol.com Tue Oct 23 17:30:11 2007 From: craftergirl at aol.com (craftergirl at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:30:11 -0400 Subject: [Stones] Diet to Prevent Bladder Stones Message-ID: <8C9E3D306CCF607-B84-6938@MBLK-M40.sysops.aol.com> Hi:? I just recently signed up for this mailing list (didn't even know about bladder stones until about a month ago).? I've been feeding my piggie, Harley, parsley everyday ever since I adopted?him last November.? He also gets, cucumbers, red peppers, carrots, celery, pea pods, corn, oranges, apples, and blue berries.? I rotate the veggies and fruit, but the parsley has been his mainstay.? He gets fed 3 times a day.? (He demands it.)? He also gets fed Oxbow pellets, a variety of Oxbow hay, and vitamin C tablets.? Now after reading up on oxylates, calcium, etc. in foods, I don't know what to feed him.? I've started giving him the pre-packaged baby spring greens mix from the grocery store, but that may be bad for him too.?? I've looked at the chart at Guinea Pig Lynx, but don't understand all the ratio stuff.? So far I don't think Harley suffers from stones, but his current diet doesn't look like something I want to continue on with or he will be getting stones. I thought about getting some dried cranberries and giving him some everyday, but I see from previous posts that maybe that won't help with bladder stones.? A local woman that rescues guinea pigs told me that her vet told her of a case where?a pig had a stone and was scheduled for surgery.? The owner decided to give a little lemon juice in the pigs water a few days before the surgery and when the vet took another x-ray to?check on the location of the stone--it was gone.? Supposedly the lemon juice had disolved the stone.? Has anyone else heard of lemon juice helping get rid of stones? What is a good daily diet of leafy greens, veggies, fruits that I can feed him that won't cause bladder stones. ?Also what amounts should be fed per feeding.?? Any help on this would be much appreciated.? Thank you. Muriel ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071023/0c75bff1/attachment.html From ABSiev at aol.com Tue Oct 23 20:19:51 2007 From: ABSiev at aol.com (ABSiev at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:19:51 EDT Subject: [Stones] CARE: diet Message-ID: To Cindy and Muriel - Here's what I do, based on my research. How useful it is in general, I couldn't tell you. My piggies get unlimited grass hay, and a small amount of Oxbow Cavy Cuisine every day. They got bottled water that has no fluoride and no or very low mineral content. They get red peppers, corn husks and silk, and peeled cucumber - those are very low in oxalates (you can add turnips if your piggies like them). That's it. We even stopped the chewable vitamin C tablets (just in case), and count on the Oxbow pellets and red pepper for C. Dark green leafies, parsley, probably cilantro, are high in oxalates so I avoid them. My boys used to LOVE dandelion greens but get them no more, alas. (Dandelion is actually supposed to be good for urinary issues but it's wicked high in oxalates.) I don't even offer carrots, lettuce, or other piggie favorites because somebody somewhere said it might be a problem. I used to give them the leaves from broccoli or cauliflower my family was having for supper - no more. (Sometimes I sneak Jif out and give him a treat Skippy can't have. Skippy gets taken out all the time for meds...he now gets Shilintong and Polycitra every day.) If I didn't have a piggie who produced an enormous stone mere months after another enormous stone was removed (and even on this regimen produces a bladder full of "sand"), I wouldn't be doing this. I certainly didn't do it with my previous 5 pigs, except Byron, who was a stones pig (with a lot of other problems). Muriel, I wonder why you want to feed your piggie a stone-preventive diet, prophylactically, if you have no particular reason to think he will have bladder stones. It seems to be a genetic issue, and many piggies don't get stones no matter what they eat. That includes my stones pig Skippy's brother/littermate, Jif, who is the strongest, healthiest boy in the world and could eat anything. Others may disagree with me and I hope they weigh in. Amy ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071023/66cfc586/attachment.html From calliope at geeksnet.com Wed Oct 24 15:28:16 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:28:16 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: diet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <471F9CD0.2090907@geeksnet.com> Amy, thank you for the information about what you feed your piggies. What sort of bottled water do you buy? I am glad to know that peeled cucumber and corn husks and silk are good, as my piggies love them. They also (sometimes) like turnips. I was looking around for sites about oxalates and found this one: drkaslow.com/html/oxalates.html This might be a site others have mentioned in the past, and I'm not sure how good it is, but it lists foods in terms of low, medium, and high oxalate content. (It lists a couple of foods, like dill, though, as both low and medium. Hmmm.) I see that escarole is listed as high, so I will quit feeding it. Thanks again, Amy! Cindy From calliope at geeksnet.com Wed Oct 24 21:42:42 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:42:42 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: Diet Message-ID: <471FF492.9060908@geeksnet.com> In regard to the website I mentioned earlier, I found a site that lists the same information but in easier-to-read chart form. Here it is: http://www.branwen.com/rowan/oxalate.htm I also found a site that talks about oxalates and bearded dragons. It lists many foods and whether they are high or low in oxalates: http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html Cindy From texg at cavyinfo.com Wed Oct 24 22:47:27 2007 From: texg at cavyinfo.com (texg at cavyinfo.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:47:27 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: diet - oxalates In-Reply-To: <471F9CD0.2090907@geeksnet.com> References: <471F9CD0.2090907@geeksnet.com> Message-ID: <20071024224727.3e4xbcqas0s80occ@www.cavyinfo.com> When we prepared the chart at the Stones site, we discovered that there was different and conflicting data regarding oxalates. We also listed it as "low-medium-high", based on educated guesses (and a LOT of help from Dawn at Oxbow). In any case, it's generally agreed to keep the amount of oxalates down, as they react chemically with calcium carbonate. There are different reactions depending on the ratios and environment, but in the context of piggies it may contribute to the formation of stones. Our current management for Baby Hamlet will be a varied diet with as little oxalates as we can manage. By varied, I mean I'm going to try to make sure he gets a mix of things each meal, rather than romaine for breakfast, escarole for dinner, etc. We've always used Poland Spring water for our piggies; I may try some Penta water on him and see if it helps. There used to be a site that gave chemical breakdowns on almost every bottled water available. The last time I looked it went from a free site to a pay site - but there are other resources. Water bottlers usually list the source and basic chemical content (mineral content, pH, etc.). From calliope at geeksnet.com Fri Oct 26 00:56:49 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 00:56:49 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: diet - oxalates In-Reply-To: <20071024224727.3e4xbcqas0s80occ@www.cavyinfo.com> References: <471F9CD0.2090907@geeksnet.com> <20071024224727.3e4xbcqas0s80occ@www.cavyinfo.com> Message-ID: <47217391.3000209@geeksnet.com> Thanks, Tex. I am working on figuring out a good diet for the boys. They are no longer getting parsley or kale (even though the kale was only a couple of times a week). I can't seem to find any oxalate readings for green-leaf lettuce. Anyone have any info? Where do you find the Poland Spring water or the Penta water? I haven't seen either one but will continue to look TIA, Cindy From texg at cavyinfo.com Fri Oct 26 08:53:26 2007 From: texg at cavyinfo.com (texg at cavyinfo.com) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:53:26 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: Water In-Reply-To: <47217391.3000209@geeksnet.com> References: <471F9CD0.2090907@geeksnet.com> <20071024224727.3e4xbcqas0s80occ@www.cavyinfo.com> <47217391.3000209@geeksnet.com> Message-ID: <20071026085326.3acnjoh0kggg4c8c@www.cavyinfo.com> Poland Spring is at the supermarket - I'd be surprised if you *couldn't* find it! Penta water is found in health food stores and larger "world-class" type supermarkets. T. From ABSiev at aol.com Fri Oct 26 11:10:58 2007 From: ABSiev at aol.com (ABSiev at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:10:58 EDT Subject: [Stones] CARE: Water Message-ID: Sorry haven't been very responsive - having an exceptionally hectic week and weekend. If you can't find either water, check their web sites for retail locations. (I get Penta at a little health food grocery store around the corner from me. You should know it's ridiculously expensive. I think list price on a LITER bottle is something like $3.29. My store sells it for $2.39 and gives me a 10% discount for a case of 12. This is why I don't drink it myself!! although I've tasted it and it's very pleasant. If you read their web site, they make all sorts of claims for it. No idea whether the science on any of it is valid.) Amy ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071026/dbd423e1/attachment.html From calliope at geeksnet.com Fri Oct 26 11:59:55 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:59:55 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: Water In-Reply-To: <20071026085326.3acnjoh0kggg4c8c@www.cavyinfo.com> References: <471F9CD0.2090907@geeksnet.com> <20071024224727.3e4xbcqas0s80occ@www.cavyinfo.com> <47217391.3000209@geeksnet.com> <20071026085326.3acnjoh0kggg4c8c@www.cavyinfo.com> Message-ID: <47220EFB.2080708@geeksnet.com> Thanks, Tex. I'll keep looking! Cindy > Poland Spring is at the supermarket - I'd be surprised if you > *couldn't* find it! Penta water is found in health food stores and > larger "world-class" type supermarkets. > > T. > From calliope at geeksnet.com Fri Oct 26 12:06:58 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:06:58 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: Water In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <472210A2.9070607@geeksnet.com> Thank you, Amy. Hope your week calms down some. I know just the health food store that might carry the Penta water. Will take a look at the websites, too. Cindy > Sorry haven't been very responsive - having an exceptionally hectic > week and weekend. If you can't find either water, check their web > sites for retail locations. (I get Penta at a little health food > grocery store around the corner from me. You should know it's > ridiculously expensive. I think list price on a LITER bottle is > something like $3.29. My store sells it for $2.39 and gives me a 10% > discount for a case of 12. This is why I don't drink it myself!! > although I've tasted it and it's very pleasant. If you read their web > site, they make all sorts of claims for it. No idea whether the > science on any of it is valid.) > > Amy > From calliope at geeksnet.com Sat Oct 27 17:58:32 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 17:58:32 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: discomfort after surgery? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4723B488.4060904@geeksnet.com> A few minutes ago, we heard Sunshine squeak loudly while urinating. He sounded just like he did before his surgery. He made the noises twice, a few minutes apart. My vet had said we might still hear some squeaks after surgery, but within a few days after surgery. It has been five days, and this is the first time we've heard Sunshine sound as though he might be having problems. Is this normal several days after surgery? I hope this makes sense. Worried, Cindy From texg at cavyinfo.com Sat Oct 27 19:31:54 2007 From: texg at cavyinfo.com (texg at cavyinfo.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:31:54 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: discomfort after surgery? In-Reply-To: <4723B488.4060904@geeksnet.com> References: <4723B488.4060904@geeksnet.com> Message-ID: <20071027193154.nao6rm0dwc8wgw8s@www.cavyinfo.com> Can you get him to pee on a paper towel? That way you'll be able to determine if he's passing any sludge. Tex Quoting Cindy : > A few minutes ago, we heard Sunshine squeak loudly while urinating. He > sounded just like he did before his surgery. He made the noises twice, > a few minutes apart. > > My vet had said we might still hear some squeaks after surgery, but > within a few days after surgery. It has been five days, and this is > the first time we've heard Sunshine sound as though he might be having > problems. > > Is this normal several days after surgery? > > I hope this makes sense. > > Worried, > Cindy From calliope at geeksnet.com Sat Oct 27 20:06:34 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:06:34 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: discomfort after surgery? In-Reply-To: <20071027193154.nao6rm0dwc8wgw8s@www.cavyinfo.com> References: <4723B488.4060904@geeksnet.com> <20071027193154.nao6rm0dwc8wgw8s@www.cavyinfo.com> Message-ID: <4723D28A.8050503@geeksnet.com> Tex, I will put a paper towel on the floor and hope that he will pee on it. I did see some pee on the floor; it had no blood in it, but I don't know about sludge. Pardon the dumb question, but what will sludge look like on a paper towel? Thanks so much, Cindy > Can you get him to pee on a paper towel? That way you'll be able to > determine if he's passing any sludge. > > Tex > From texg at cavyinfo.com Sat Oct 27 20:09:50 2007 From: texg at cavyinfo.com (texg at cavyinfo.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:09:50 -0400 Subject: [Stones] CARE: discomfort after surgery? In-Reply-To: <4723D28A.8050503@geeksnet.com> References: <4723B488.4060904@geeksnet.com> <20071027193154.nao6rm0dwc8wgw8s@www.cavyinfo.com> <4723D28A.8050503@geeksnet.com> Message-ID: <20071027200950.e7e8x7pq80ssk004@www.cavyinfo.com> You'll see a little spot that looks like chalk dust. A little is normal, but a lot (depending on amount peed) means sludge. Sometimes you can see actual chunks in it... Quoting Cindy : > Tex, I will put a paper towel on the floor and hope that he will pee on > it. I did see some pee on the floor; it had no blood in it, but I don't > know about sludge. Pardon the dumb question, but what will sludge look > like on a paper towel? > > Thanks so much, > Cindy > > >> Can you get him to pee on a paper towel? That way you'll be able to >> determine if he's passing any sludge. >> >> Tex >> > > _______________________________________________ > Stones mailing list > Stones at gpigs-database.org > http://gpigs-database.org/mailman/listinfo/stones_gpigs-database.org > From calliope at geeksnet.com Mon Oct 29 12:35:55 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:35:55 -0500 Subject: [Stones] HEALTH: Sunshine needs surgery again tomorrow Message-ID: <47260BEB.8080309@geeksnet.com> Sunshine is going to have to have another surgery tomorrow. As you know, he began having discomfort over the weekend. Took him back to the vet's this morning and they did an X-ray and found a bladder stone in the urethra. Apparently they could not see it from the angle of the previous X-rays. Although my vet flushed the bladder during surgery (and, if I understand it correctly, the water came back through the urethra and penis) to get any possible "invisible" stones out of the urethra, a stone remained behind. My vet said (I'd already figured it out) that there is no choice about the surgery. Whew. Sunshine is also on Baytril, twice a day. All healing wheeks, good thoughts, and prayers much appreciated. Cindy From gegoderod at yahoo.de Mon Oct 29 22:02:41 2007 From: gegoderod at yahoo.de (Elizabeth Williams) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Stones] CARE: Water Message-ID: <397337.41867.qm@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My vet recommended we give Buckley (my stone/sludge pig) distilled water. We've been giving her distilled water for almost a year now. Does anyone else have experience with distilled water? I was hesitant to give them (Buckley and her non-sludge pal Bea) distilled water. -Liz __________________________________ Ihre erste Baustelle? Wissenswertes f?r Bastler und Hobby Handwerker. www.yahoo.de/clever From calliope at geeksnet.com Tue Oct 30 15:01:06 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:01:06 -0500 Subject: [Stones] HEALTH: Sunshine update Message-ID: <47277F72.9080708@geeksnet.com> Sunshine had his surgery today. He is awake and eating his veggies. We will pick him up sometime after 5. Will write more then. Cindy From calliope at geeksnet.com Wed Oct 31 10:51:08 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:51:08 -0500 Subject: [Stones] CARE: polycitra syrup Message-ID: <4728965C.7040901@geeksnet.com> Is polycitra syrup related to potassium citrate? My vet did some research and found that some vets are recommending potassium citrate to prevent the recurrence of bladder stones. My Sunshine update is not very good at the moment. He is definitely feeling this surgery. Last time he bounced back within 24 hours and wanted to get out of his cage and go exploring. We gave him some Metacam about an hour ago and it looks as though he is relaxing some, but I just don't know ... He has been refusing his favorite foods, but he did eagerly eat some cucumber a while ago. Cindy From ABSiev at aol.com Wed Oct 31 11:57:45 2007 From: ABSiev at aol.com (ABSiev at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:57:45 EDT Subject: [Stones] CARE: polycitra syrup Message-ID: Polycitra is potassium citrate monohydrate with citric acid monohydrate. It is intended for humans so one bottle lasts a piggie forever. the dose is about .15 to .2 cc (note the decimal point). I put that much in a 1 cc syringe and fill it with water, then give some more water afterwards Kiss Sunshine for me. this has been a very difficult week for him (and you) My mother's aide just called to tell me my mom won't get out of bed this morning and won't eat (she's been failing for the last few months) so I'm on my way there, and I do not have web access at her house. It's a couple of hours away. I will try to come home overnight. Wheeks to all stones pigs and the wonderful folks who care for them Amy ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071031/c09d3eb7/attachment.html From calliope at geeksnet.com Wed Oct 31 13:13:08 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:13:08 -0500 Subject: [Stones] CARE: polycitra syrup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4728B7A4.90107@geeksnet.com> Thank you for the information, Amy. I think Sunshine might like the polycitra. I will be happy to give him a kiss from you. Yes, this has been a week I would not like to repeat. We are sending all good wishes to your mom. Have a safe trip. We will keep both of you in our prayers. Thanks again, Cindy From calliope at geeksnet.com Wed Oct 31 18:08:15 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:08:15 -0500 Subject: [Stones] HEALTH: Sunshine is feeling better Message-ID: <4728FCCF.5@geeksnet.com> I am sorry this is a crazy roller coaster ride, but I wanted to say that the Metacam has kicked in and Sunshine is feeling much better. Since 3 p.m., he has eaten almost normally (I still would like to see him eat some pellets). At 5:30, he insisted on getting out of his cage. I was hesitant, but I decided that the distraction of resting on the floor with Tumbleweed would be good for him. We are not out of the woods by any means, but I am so thankful that the Metacam is doing its job! I hope that Sunshine can rest, eat, and focus on getting well now. Thanks for keeping him in your thoughts and prayers. Your support means so much to both of us. Cindy and Sunshine