From calliope at geeksnet.com Thu Dec 6 13:12:58 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:12:58 -0500 Subject: [Stones] RAINBOW BRIDGE: Sunshine is gone Message-ID: <47583BAA.70402@geeksnet.com> We had to help our beautiful boy to the Bridge this morning. He had slowly quit eating his favorite foods, and last night around 1 a.m. he quit eating entirely. An X-ray showed that more stones had already formed (I had read about stones re-forming within 10 days in some piggies), and he also had pneumonia and gas. We would have done our best to get him through the pneumonia and gas, but then the stones would still have been there, and he might have died a horrible death, with a stone caught in his urethra preventing him from urinating. He couldn't go through another surgery so soon and certainly not while he had pneumonia. Our vet felt that the situation was such that Sunshine wouldn't be able to get over it. I held Sunshine and talked to him when the sedative was given before the euthanasia. I told him he would see Joey again and meet many new friends at the Rainbow Bridge. Don't know what I will do without my special boy. Cindy From matwichuk at illinoisalumni.org Thu Dec 6 13:15:56 2007 From: matwichuk at illinoisalumni.org (Meghann Matwichuk) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:15:56 -0800 Subject: [Stones] RAINBOW BRIDGE: Sunshine is gone Message-ID: <1d7301c83834$0ba49750$0d6a010a@mail2world.com> Cindy and all others who've lost their little ones this year -- So sorry to hear about your loss. They're all so unique and they leave a big hole when they go. I hope you can take comfort knowing that there are many out here in cyberspace who understand your grief. I've lost four of my little ones this year (two to bladder stone issues), and certainly do sympathize. Best wishes for a healing holiday season, Meghann <-----Original Message-----> >From: Cindy [calliope at geeksnet.com] >Sent: 12/6/2007 1:15:58 PM >To: stones at gpigs-database.org >Subject: Re: [Stones] RAINBOW BRIDGE: Sunshine is gone > >We had to help our beautiful boy to the Bridge this morning. He had >slowly quit eating his favorite foods, and last night around 1 a.m. he >quit eating entirely. > >An X-ray showed that more stones had already formed (I had read about >stones re-forming within 10 days in some piggies), and he also had >pneumonia and gas. We would have done our best to get him through the >pneumonia and gas, but then the stones would still have been there, and >he might have died a horrible death, with a stone caught in his urethra >preventing him from urinating. He couldn't go through another surgery >so soon >and certainly not while he had pneumonia. > >Our vet felt that the situation was such that Sunshine wouldn't be able >to get over it. > >I held Sunshine and talked to him when the sedative was given before the >euthanasia. I told him he would see Joey again and meet many new >friends at the Rainbow Bridge. > >Don't know what I will do without my special boy. > >Cindy > >_______________________________________________ >Stones mailing list >Stones at gpigs-database.org >http://gpigs-database.org/mailman/listinfo/stones_gpigs-database.org >. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071206/87196a68/attachment.html From craftergirl at aol.com Fri Dec 7 18:35:29 2007 From: craftergirl at aol.com (craftergirl at aol.com) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 18:35:29 -0500 Subject: [Stones] Sunshine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA0740FC58BA58-4E0-46C7@FWM-D07.sysops.aol.com> Cindy:? So sorry to hear about Sunshine.? One of the hardest things an animal lover will ever have to do is send their beloved pet over the rainbow bridge.??Sunshine put up a strong battle and now he is at rest.??You are?to be commended for being such a devoted and loving owner.? My thoughts are with you at this time. Muriel? -----Original Message----- From: stones-request at gpigs-database.org To: stones at gpigs-database.org Sent: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 10:00 am Subject: Stones Digest, Vol 40, Issue 1 Send Stones mailing list submissions to stones at gpigs-database.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://gpigs-database.org/mailman/listinfo/stones_gpigs-database.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to stones-request at gpigs-database.org You can reach the person managing the list at stones-owner at gpigs-database.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Stones digest..." Guinea Pig Bladderstone Mailing List Today's Topics: 1. RAINBOW BRIDGE: Sunshine is gone (Cindy) 2. Re: RAINBOW BRIDGE: Sunshine is gone (Meghann Matwichuk) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:12:58 -0500 From: Cindy Subject: [Stones] RAINBOW BRIDGE: Sunshine is gone To: stones at gpigs-database.org Message-ID: <47583BAA.70402 at geeksnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed We had to help our beautiful boy to the Bridge this morning. He had slowly quit eating his favorite foods, and last night around 1 a.m. he quit eating entirely. An X-ray showed that more stones had already formed (I had read about stones re-forming within 10 days in some piggies), and he also had pneumonia and gas. We would have done our best to get him through the pneumonia and gas, but then the stones would still have been there, and he might have died a horrible death, with a stone caught in his urethra preventing him from urinating. He couldn't go through another surgery so soon and certainly not while he had pneumonia. Our vet felt that the situation was such that Sunshine wouldn't be able to get over it. I held Sunshine and talked to him when the sedative was given before the euthanasia. I told him he would see Joey again and meet many new friends at the Rainbow Bridge. Don't know what I will do without my special boy. Cindy ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:15:56 -0800 From: "Meghann Matwichuk" Subject: Re: [Stones] RAINBOW BRIDGE: Sunshine is gone To: Cc: stones at gpigs-database.org Message-ID: <1d7301c83834$0ba49750$0d6a010a at mail2world.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Cindy and all others who've lost their little ones this year -- So sorry to hear about your loss. They're all so unique and they leave a big hole when they go. I hope you can take comfort knowing that there are many out here in cyberspace who understand your grief. I've lost four of my little ones this year (two to bladder stone issues), and certainly do sympathize. Best wishes for a healing holiday season, Meghann <-----Original Message-----> >From: Cindy [calliope at geeksnet.com] >Sent: 12/6/2007 1:15:58 PM >To: stones at gpigs-database.org >Subject: Re: [Stones] RAINBOW BRIDGE: Sunshine is gone > >We had to help our beautiful boy to the Bridge this morning. He had >slowly quit eating his favorite foods, and last night around 1 a.m. he >quit eating entirely. > >An X-ray showed that more stones had already formed (I had read about >stones re-forming within 10 days in some piggies), and he also had >pneumonia and gas. We would have done our best to get him through the >pneumonia and gas, but then the stones would still have been there, and >he might have died a horrible death, with a stone caught in his urethra >preventing him from urinating. He couldn't go through another surgery >so soon >and certainly not while he had pneumonia. > >Our vet felt that the situation was such that Sunshine wouldn't be able >to get over it. > >I held Sunshine and talked to him when the sedative was given before the >euthanasia. I told him he would see Joey again and meet many new >friends at the Rainbow Bridge. > >Don't know what I will do without my special boy. > >Cindy > >_______________________________________________ >Stones mailing list >Stones at gpigs-database.org >http://gpigs-database.org/mailman/listinfo/stones_gpigs-database.org >. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071206/87196a68/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Stones mailing list Stones at gpigs-database.org http://gpigs-database.org/mailman/listinfo/stones_gpigs-database.org End of Stones Digest, Vol 40, Issue 1 ************************************* ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071207/d577d87b/attachment.html From calliope at geeksnet.com Mon Dec 17 14:31:43 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:31:43 -0500 Subject: [Stones] RAINBOW BRIDGE: my tribute to Sunshine Message-ID: <4766CE9F.9040002@geeksnet.com> A tribute to Sunshine (adopted Aug. 28, 2004; passed away Dec. 6, 2007): Sunshine was just like his name: bright and happy and a sweetheart. He had a white crest and a cream-colored body. Actually he looked just like a Twinkie; however, he was anything but. Sunshine was one of the Maryland rescue piggies back in 2004. He was found in a garage along with more than 250 other piggies, and I will always be thankful to Judi for her rescue efforts and to Judi and Virginia (who I don't think is on the Digest) for helping transport him to me. Virginia was kind enough to let me pick him and Tumbleweed up at her parents' house, which was about an hour and a half drive from us. Sunshine adjusted to our family right away. In fact, it seemed as if he'd always known us. One day, after he'd first arrived, he and I looked at one another, and it suddenly seemed as if we remembered each other. From then on, our bond was always close. We debated between the names "Sunshine" and "Hamilton" for him. Besides resembling a Twinkie, he looked like Hammy the Hamster from "Once Upon a Hamster." Sometimes he even curled up on the floor and pulled a newspaper over his body, like Hammy tucking himself into bed on the show. We ended up calling him Sunshine but using Hammy as a nickname. Our Joey G. was still with us then, and we had the daunting, or so we expected, task of introducing all of them. Three boars! First we introduced Sunshine and Tumbleweed, and they quickly became buddies. A few days later, in a neutral spot in our kitchen, we introduced Joey G. to them. A few sniffs, and all were friends. The introductions were so low-key and cordial that Sunshine fell asleep! Sunshine loved to be combed and immediately became a lap pig. His laptime record is 2 hours and 40 minutes. Often at night my husband would be "first shift," and I would be "second shift." Sunshine loved lying wrapped in a towel as we watched TV or read. Sometimes he threw his head down and gazed up at us with those soulful eyes of his. He could always melt my heart. When Joey G. passed away , Friday came to live with us. Unfortunately he did not get along with Sunshine and tried to attack him. Therefore, I had to develop what I called "The Stock Exchange." Friday and Tumbleweed would have floortime for a while, then I would put Friday back in his cage and give Sunshine floortime with Tumbleweed. To let Sunshine know it was time to get out, I hummed "Reveille." He quickly learned what it meant and climbed up on my arm when I reached into his cage. He then gave a big stretch before I set him on the floor. Several months ago, Sunshine started doing something new. During floortime, he had a towel with newspapers on top of it. He began pulling up a newspaper to create a tunnel to rest under. One day he placed the newspaper against the sipper tube of his floor water bottle, pressed, and stuck the paper on it, making a mask he could drink through. A few days ago, Friday (who had never seen Sunshine make a mask and never made one himself) got out for floortime, pulled up the paper, and made his own mask. I had to wonder if he was missing Sunshine, or if Sunshine was saying hello to us from the Bridge. I find I can't write in detail about the bladder stone surgeries and the last weeks of Sunshine's life. However, I will say that after his first surgery, when we opened up his carrier, he looked so wan and weak. Then he glanced up, saw me, and blossomed. His posture became straighter, relief and happiness swept across his face, and he totally relaxed. It was like seeing time-lapse photography of a flower blooming. Sunshine always wore his heart on his sleeve and was my sensitive boy, but he had a quiet strength that I only fully grasped when he left us. He hardly skipped a beat in his normal routine after his first surgery, and even after his second he was still strong and determined. It was only when the stones returned yet again and he also had developed gas and pneumonia that we knew we had to help him to the Bridge. Our vet gave him a sedative, and afterwards he leaped into my arms. With our close bond, I often felt I knew what he was thinking, and vice versa, so on this horrible day, I think he knew what the sedative meant -- and that will always haunt me. I held him close and cuddled him, and my husband and I both talked to him and told him how much we loved him and how Joey and many new friends would be there waiting for him at the Bridge. My vet said that the sedative would bring almost immediate pain relief, so I am glad that there were some moments on this side of the Bridge that Sunshine knew once again what it was to be free of pain. I love you, Sunshine, my special boy. Eat anything you want at the Bridge -- no stones exist there! Sadly, Cindy, Tumbleweed, and Friday, missing Sunshine From KSkosich at msn.com Wed Dec 19 22:32:04 2007 From: KSkosich at msn.com (J D) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:32:04 -0700 Subject: [Stones] MISC: lovely tribute to Sunshine Message-ID: Cindy, your post about your little man Sunshine made me laugh and made me cry. How wonderful that you found each other. I used to have the foolish idea that I could never be as close to a "second-hand" pet as I would one raised from a baby. How wrong I was! Sunshine was a shining example of that for you, as our current boar, Pookah-Darryl is for me. I loved all thirteen of our piggies but some of them do have that extra spark in their personalities and you never forget them. In sincere sympathy, Kathy S -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071219/02d4afb6/attachment.html From calliope at geeksnet.com Thu Dec 20 18:04:39 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:04:39 -0500 Subject: [Stones] HEALTH: any unrelated piggies with stones? Message-ID: <476AF507.8050008@geeksnet.com> Hi all. I am so worried that Tumbleweed might have bladder stones. A few weeks ago I heard him squeaking when "going," and I got an X-ray, which indicated he did not have stones. Then it seemed that I didn't hear the squeaking for a while, but it has recently begun again. He has been on a low-oxalate diet since Sunshine went on it, in late October. We also began giving him Polycitra about a week ago. He was eating fresh cranberries for a couple of weeks but refuses them now. Yesterday I bought some cranberry juice (no sugar added), and we gave it to him mixed with just a little apple juice (again, no sugar added), but he did not like it at all. Friday, however, loves both the cranberries and the juice. I don't know what I will do if Tumbleweed has a stone or stones, after losing Sunshine so recently. What I am trying to figure out is what I could be doing wrong. I've had piggies for about 15 years now and never had any with stones. Has anyone ever had two unrelated piggies have stones? Although Sunshine and Tumbleweed were rescues and came from the same horrible person, they are not related that I know of. TIA, Cindy, Tumbleweed, and Friday, missing Sunshine and also worrying From ABSiev at aol.com Thu Dec 20 18:29:10 2007 From: ABSiev at aol.com (ABSiev at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:29:10 EST Subject: [Stones] HEALTH: any unrelated piggies with stones? Message-ID: In a message dated 12/20/07 6:21:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, calliope at geeksnet.com writes: Has anyone ever had two unrelated piggies have stones? Yes, it seems to be a crapshoot. My Byron had stones but he was a gorgeous purebred teddie and had all kinds of problems. My current piggies are "mutts" and they are littermates and look amost exactly alike and one has stones and the other doesn't. None of my other piggies ever had a problem (12 years). Make sure Tumbleweed doesn't have fluoride in his water. You might want to try shilintong, but you might not need to. Cranberry is more for UTI's than stones, as far as I know. The crying might be a little sludge he needs to pass that has not formed into a stone. Or, it could be something wholly unrelated, like a UTI. You could bring in a urine sample and the vet could check it for bacteria, blood cells, sludge. If he has a bunch of sludge (not formed into a stone) your vet could do a bladder flush, much less traumatic than surgery though still a bit of a production (need some pain meds and antibiotics afterwards). I wanted to tell you how moved I was by your tribute to Sunshine, just lovely. Hugs, Amy **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071220/804c324d/attachment.html From texg at cavyinfo.com Thu Dec 20 21:11:30 2007 From: texg at cavyinfo.com (texg at cavyinfo.com) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:11:30 -0500 Subject: [Stones] HEALTH: any unrelated piggies with stones? In-Reply-To: <476AF507.8050008@geeksnet.com> References: <476AF507.8050008@geeksnet.com> Message-ID: <20071220211130.2ye3qz5bmsk4o8c4@www.cavyinfo.com> Cindy, Unfortunately, it's not just heredity that may cause stones. While heredity *might* be a factor, there seem to be no real links. Stones affect un-neutered piggies (male and female), unrelated piggies and don't seem to be breed-specific - although I've had particularly bad luck with Teddies. The best thing for Tumbleweed is to make sure he gets plenty of water, some exercise, and keep an eye on him. Hopefully it is *not* stones, but perhaps some sludge now and again. Tex From calliope at geeksnet.com Fri Dec 21 18:15:16 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:15:16 -0500 Subject: [Stones] HEALTH: any unrelated piggies with stones? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <476C4904.1030000@geeksnet.com> Amy, thanks so much for your help. I've switched to bottled water and today even added a little bit of lemon juice in it to see if Tumbleweed would drink it. He is. I will consider the shilingtong; I'm not sure if I have given the Polycitra time to work. Yes, I really hope that he has sludge and not a stone. He was on Baytril for some nasal discharge, and I think Baytril would have cleared up a UTI, so it is probably not that (I hope). The urine sample is a great idea, as is the bladder flush, although I hope we won't have to do the flush. Whew. I will continue to offer cranberries (Friday loves them) but won't worry if Tumbleweed decides not to partake. Thank you also for your kind words about my tribute to Sunshine. I miss him so. Cindy, Tumbleweed, and Friday, missing Sunshine From calliope at geeksnet.com Fri Dec 21 18:19:07 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:19:07 -0500 Subject: [Stones] HEALTH: any unrelated piggies with stones? In-Reply-To: <20071220211130.2ye3qz5bmsk4o8c4@www.cavyinfo.com> References: <476AF507.8050008@geeksnet.com> <20071220211130.2ye3qz5bmsk4o8c4@www.cavyinfo.com> Message-ID: <476C49EB.1000703@geeksnet.com> I really appreciate your help, Tex. Tumbleweed does get quite a lot of exercise (Friday has dedicated himself to ensuring that), and I am trying to encourage him to drink more water. Since Sunshine passed away, Tumbleweed seems not to know that he can drink water when he's in his cage! As soon as I put him out on the floor, he decides he will drink. Yes, I hope it is sludge and not stones. Thanks so much for your help. Cindy, Tumbleweed, and Friday, missing Sunshine From ebak at ca.inter.net Sun Dec 23 21:07:57 2007 From: ebak at ca.inter.net (Evelyn Baker) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:07:57 -0500 Subject: [Stones] Lemon juice in water Message-ID: <57DF7A12-2904-420A-AC4B-5C2256761A79@ca.inter.net> I believe, although acidic, has the opposite effect on urine and can make it more alkaline. This is something to be avoided when dealing with stones. Evelyn From calliope at geeksnet.com Sun Dec 23 23:24:43 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:24:43 -0500 Subject: [Stones] CARE: Re: Lemon juice in water In-Reply-To: <57DF7A12-2904-420A-AC4B-5C2256761A79@ca.inter.net> References: <57DF7A12-2904-420A-AC4B-5C2256761A79@ca.inter.net> Message-ID: <476F348B.7000903@geeksnet.com> Thank you, Evelyn. No more lemon juice! Cindy > I believe, although acidic, has the opposite effect on urine and can > make it more alkaline. This is something to be avoided when dealing > with stones. > > Evelyn > From ebak at ca.inter.net Mon Dec 24 00:45:52 2007 From: ebak at ca.inter.net (Evelyn Baker) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:45:52 -0500 Subject: [Stones] Actigall For Guineapigs Message-ID: I believe I had a guinea pig on that for a stone many years ago and it worked. It was very hard on her tummy and I learned to give her yoghurt before and a little after as well. Evelyn From calliope at geeksnet.com Mon Dec 24 13:50:48 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:50:48 -0500 Subject: [Stones] MISC.: thank you Message-ID: <476FFF88.3020800@geeksnet.com> I want to thank everyone for their condolences on Sunshine's passing. Reading your kind and thoughtful words has helped more than I can express at this difficult time. I know that denial is supposed to be the first stage of grieving; in my case, denial has been a kind of numbness. Unfortunately that has worn off, and I am starting to really believe that my special boy is gone. It helps, though, to know that you understand what I'm going through. Thank you again, Cindy, Tumbleweed, and Friday, missing Sunshine From calliope at geeksnet.com Thu Dec 27 19:04:18 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:04:18 -0500 Subject: [Stones] CARE: Vitamin C and piggies with sludge or stones Message-ID: <47743D82.4040309@geeksnet.com> What is the latest about giving Vitamin C to piggies who have sludge or stones? Is supplementing with chewable tablets a no-no? Thanks for any info. Cindy, Tumbleweed, and Friday, missing Sunshine From fuarecords at yahoo.com Sat Dec 29 21:46:56 2007 From: fuarecords at yahoo.com (Kelly) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 18:46:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Stones] Polycitra dilution? Message-ID: <223785.3507.qm@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> First of all, thank you to all for sharing so informative posts. I have been doing a lot of reading on these pages, as my 9-month old female piggie was recently diagnosed with a bladder stone via x-ray. It is very small, so the vet has prescribed Polycitra and a recheck in one month. I got the prescription filled after getting it today and was then told by the pharmacist that Polycitra must be diluted. My vet didn't mention this, and as we were the vet's last Saturday appointment before the New Year holiday, I have been unable to reach her by phone. Her office is closed until January 2. I will not give meds to my piggie without understanding the proper protocol. My questions: What is the proper dilution ratio for Polycitra? (My piggies' weight is 2.6 lbs. and the dosage on the bottle is 0.1 ml twice daily.) Should I dilute with water or ??? Is Polycitra effective in degrading calcium carbonate? (My piggie's labs showed calcium carbonate at a +3 in her urine, all other panels came back normal and w/no infection.) Is there a better approach to treating this (probably calcium carbonate) stone other than Polycitra? Thanks for any wisdom on this. I appreciate it! -Kelly --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071229/78db0429/attachment.html From ABSiev at aol.com Sat Dec 29 22:53:55 2007 From: ABSiev at aol.com (ABSiev at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:53:55 EST Subject: [Stones] Polycitra dilution? Message-ID: use a 1 cc (TB) syringe - fill it to the 0.10 line with Polycitra, then fill it the rest of the way with water. use bottled water unless your home water is non-fluoridated and soft (low in minerals), in which case I would filter it (Brita etc.). sometimes I give another half- to one-syringe full of water after that, but the 9:1 dilution is adequate. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071229/9e6af905/attachment.html From fuarecords at yahoo.com Sat Dec 29 23:42:41 2007 From: fuarecords at yahoo.com (Kelly) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 20:42:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Stones] Polycitra vs. Shilintong for a small bladder stone? Message-ID: <584037.37422.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi to all. I am new to this and reading a *lot* tonight on bladder stones. The more I read, the more I am vacillating on the prescribed use of Polycitra for my female GP's bladder stone. This is my piggie's first stone (she is only 9 months old). No other health issues or infection. The stone is small and is not palpable, but is visible on an x-ray we took this afternoon. Her symptoms prior to diagnosis were pain with elimination and - until a few days ago -- a white chalky discharge. The discharge stopped a few days ago. She still experiences intermittent pain with defecation/urination, but is otherwise behaving normally. Her urine sample from two days ago was normal, except for +3 calcium carbonate (the only thing of which I am not sure is what normal alkalinity is for a piggie's urine; her urine pH was 8.5). The stone is small and is not palpable, but is visible on an x-ray taken this afternoon. The vet gave me a prescription for Polycitra to try for a month, to be followed up by another x-ray. I filled the prescription but have not yet administered it (I was waiting to find out the dilution ratio for Polycitra, which someone here kindly provided earlier this evening). Now I am wondering if I want to proceed with Polycitra at all... It seems to be more of a preventative measure than a cure for an existing stone. Is that the case? Does it even work on degrading calcium carbonate? I am reading good things about shilintong... But I am admittedly a little nervous about Chinese herbs with all the recent product recalls. Is shilintong preferable to Polycitra in eradicating or helping a piggie pass an existing stone? If so, can someone refer me to a reliable source of shilintong and advise me on dosage for a 2.6 lb. piggie? Thanks to all the wonderful piggie parents (and love to all the stone piggies), - Kelly --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071229/2bfc167a/attachment.html From texg at cavyinfo.com Sun Dec 30 04:04:34 2007 From: texg at cavyinfo.com (texg at cavyinfo.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 04:04:34 -0500 Subject: [Stones] Chinese herbs In-Reply-To: <584037.37422.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <584037.37422.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20071230040434.nq7g7jp74c0408o4@www.cavyinfo.com> Kelly, I currently have a piggie (Baby Hamlet) with stones, and because he is exhibiting no symptoms, we have decided to take a very conservative approach - periodic x-rays to monitor the stones. If it becomes evident that they are a problem, surgery is in order. Females have it a bit easier: often, they are able to pass the stones. A number of the Stones list members have used shilintong with good results. As far as the safety: I personally would be a great deal less concerned about problems with an herb product that is produced for a "specialty" market. The recalls, etc. have been, in most part, for items that were mass-produced for consumptoion in the USA commercial markets. Shilintong is a "specialty" herb, with a very small consumer base. There are a number of websites that offer herbs with "guaranteed" purity (in that they do their own testing, or closely monitor the manufacturing process). You might look into one of those if you decide to try shilintong. Nine months is young for a piggie to be forming stones; what is her diet? Sometimes sludge and stones can occur if there is too much phosphorus. The polycitra syrup is basically potassium citrate, which helps the body in dealing with calcium/phosphorous metabolization, so even if it doesn't eliminate the current stone, it may help the current one from growing, or others from forming. All is just my opinion, of course. Tex From calliope at geeksnet.com Sun Dec 30 14:34:13 2007 From: calliope at geeksnet.com (Cindy) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:34:13 -0500 Subject: [Stones] CARE: Vitamin C supplements? Message-ID: <4777F2B5.9020705@geeksnet.com> Apologies for asking this again, but it is OK to give Vitamin C supplements (the chewable kind) to piggies who possibly have sludge, or should these supplements be avoided? TIA, Cindy, Tumbleweed, and Friday, missing Sunshine From fuarecords at yahoo.com Sun Dec 30 15:32:55 2007 From: fuarecords at yahoo.com (Kelly) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:32:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Stones] Chinese Herbs/My Piggie's Diet Message-ID: <503533.89932.qm@web56308.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Thanks for your insights, Tex. I will find a "guaranteed" purity company for the shilintong; it certainly sounds better that "not guaranteed." ;) I agree that 9 months old is very young for a stone. I am hoping she will pass the stone. I am also hoping her youth works in her favor in healing. Diet: Because I lost a piggie to stones as a child, I have since been very careful with my piggies' diets with regard to the recommended Ca:P ratio. This extra care I have taken in doing the daily math is no small irony to me right now. The bulk of her daily diet is Oxbow Timothy Hay (all she can eat) and 1/8 cup of Oxbow Cavy Cuisine, along with a Oxbow vitamin C supplement (50 mg). Organic, green leafy veggies at the recommended Ca:P ratio make up approx. 25% of her diet. When she was under 6 months old, I did feed her Oxbow Cavy Performance (too much alfalfa?). I also fed her more veggies than I do now (veggies were then 40% of her diet). First I was told by one vet that it was okay for a piggie to have lots of veggies. Then I was told, by another vet, that piggies should eat no more than an 1/8 cup of veggies a day, which is why I have since reduced her veggie intake... Did too many veggies cause this? Or did the gradual decrease in veggies over the last few months cause this?was it the alfalfa in the Oxbow pellets? I just don't know, and there is a lot of conflicting information, even among exotic vets. More veggies? Less veggies? More pellets? Less pellets? She really loves her hay -- more than any other piggie I've had. I think that is a good thing... But is it? I go over this stuff again and again in my mind. At first exam, her new vet said my piggie looks "very healthy" and has the "best coat" she's seen in 20 years of practice. The vet also said, "Keep doing what you're doing" -- that this stone is probably a "genetic" problem (my piggie is a Texel, don't know if that has anything to do with this or not). Obviously, I am stymied. I want to address this from a whole-system, whole-piggie perspective, instead of "chasing" a stone -- or more stones in the future. A dietary change would be the easiest thing, if I only knew what I should change! :p That said, any advice regarding improving her diet to lessen the chance of future stones would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://gpigs-database.org/pipermail/stones_gpigs-database.org/attachments/20071230/a04df549/attachment.html From rzm.2 at juno.com Sun Dec 30 19:40:46 2007 From: rzm.2 at juno.com (Jaime) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 00:40:46 GMT Subject: [Stones] HEALTH- polycitra & bladder stones Message-ID: <20071230.164046.24219.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com> Kelly- Your situation sounds similar to that of my first piggie Albert. He developed a stone & was to have surgery to remove it, but when the vet went in to remove the stone, they found it was lodged in his ureter & could not be removed. The vet started him on Polycitra to try & change the PH of his urine to help dissolve the stone. I was never told to dilute the Polycitra. Maybe they did it at the vets, I don't know. He received 0.1ml twice a day. I also started him on Shilintong at the same time as well. Approximatley 3 days later he passed the stone on his own. I don't know if it was the Polycitra, the Shilintong, or a combination thereof, but out it came one night when he was out having floor time. Unfortunately he later developed other problems & eventually we had to have him put to sleep. But I am convinced the combo of Polycitra, Shilintong & the pain med Metacam helped him pass the stone. The white chalky stuff you are seeing is called sludge. Tends to go along with the stone problems. If you would like, I can send you some of the Shilintong tablets I used for Albert. I have a good amount left, but want to keep some in case Mimi ever needs it (God forbid!)I can send you some tablets just so you can see if it's something you'd be interested in using. I agree with Tex, I think it's pretty safe. If you are interested, you can e-mail me at: rzm.2 at juno.com. Also you may want to consider putting out a post on the Guinea Pig Daily Digest too. Alot of people that read that have had piggies with stone issues. Good luck. ~Jaime & Mimi~ ~Molly, Radar & Albert always in our hearts~ http://piggiepages001.blogspot.com/ _____________________________________________________________ Click for free information on accounting careers, $150/hour potential. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3l7D4TTgirFL1sDQYrmxcaPFno7O16lpp6voUEdkd6v1mZYp/